More DMV Bureacratic Runaround, David Towel, W6VNQ

Hi Cliff,

I too received a replacement plate with a space (W6 VNQ) and right justified when I turned in my old call sign plates (KD6VNQ). I submitted the request to my local DMV office and in about 3 weeks the new plates arrived. However, the plates call was N6VNQ, with no spaces. I took the plates back to the same DMV office and they reordered the correct plates. Another 3+ months and the new plates arrived, W6 VNQ. Back to the DMV office. I was told that a new computer system had been installed a while back (no time period given) that required the space. The person also showed me the section on amateur radio plates in their field manual. It called for a space after the number on 1 x 3 calls. I called the main DMV registration office in Sacramento and was told that it was not a new computer issue, but it had always been required that amateur radio license plates had a space in them.

My registration has a space. I checked with numerous hams, 1 x 3 and 1 x 2 calls that did not have spaces. However, their registration had a space.

I then took my "spaced" plates to another DMV office in another county and after some discussion the office manager explained to the person helping be how to write up the request so that new plates would be issued with no space and centered on the plate.

I have a draft letter to send to ARRL as well as my state representative. Based on what I understand is taking place I will hold off. If I need to do something different in regards to signing a petition please let me know. I will also forward the EMCOMM newsletter on to others.

David, W6VNQ

DMV's Dec. 27, 2007 Response to Marvin Munster

This is in response to your letter dated December 13, 2007, regarding the spacing of your Amateur Radio (HAM) call letters on your leicnse
plates.

California Vehicle Code Section 5005 allows the Department of Motor Vehicles to issue special plates in lieu of the regular license
plates to a vehicle owned by persons holding an Amateur Radio license issued by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). These special license plates display the official Amateur Radio call letters of the applicant as assigned by the FCC.

The Department has been issuing HAM license plates since 1953 when
the statute was first enacted. The placement or spacing of letters and numbers composed of the HAM license was originally determined by the FCC. Although the department is required by law to issue HAM license plates with specific call letters, spacing is not addressed in the statute and the department can exercise its administrative
authority in this regard.

The Department adopted the spacing in order for law enforcement to differentiate between HAM license plates and other series license plates. Unlike other states, California does not distinguish the HAM license plates with a symbol or wording indicating the plate is a HAM plate.

In April 2007, it was brought to our attention that the HAM license plates were being ordered and issued without the proper spacing. The problem has since been corrected; however, those HAM plates issued with no spaces will remain valid until the plates are lost or damaged and duplicates are requested. The Department has received several
complaints, regarding the spacing of HAM license plates ordered by
applicants. Thoughts of eliminating the spaces have been reviewed, but we must take into consideration the other series license plates and the distinction that HAM license plates will no longer have.

Sincerely,

MARIO BALBIANI, Program Manager
Registration Policy Development
Department OF Motor Vehicles
Registration Operations Division
P.O. Box 825393
Sacramento, CA 94232-5393

Complaint to DMV: DW Thorne, K6SOJ, World Radio Relay League

(mailed 12/12/07):

Office of the Director
Department of Motor Vehicles
2415 1st Avenue Mail Station F101
Sacramento, CA 95818

December 12, 2007

Dear Sir or Madam:

I am an amateur radio operator and my FCC issued call sign is K6SOJ. I have had amateur radio call sign license plates K6SOJ on my vehicle for several years.
On June 26, 2007 upon returning home from a 1500 mile road trip I noticed that my front license plate was missing.

My amateur radio call sign, as issued by the FCC, has five (5) characters in this configuration: K6SOJ. The standard (environmental) California plate has room for seven (7) characters. The lost plate was configured: _K6SOJ_ , (centered in the middle of the plate with no spaces between any character as is the rear license plate which is still on the vehicle).

On July 13, 2007 I visited the Tulelake DMV office (86 mile round trip), ordered a replacement plate, and paid the $16.00 fee. About four months later I received two replacement plates. The new plates were _K6_SOJ (offset to the right, with a full space between the 6 and the S).

On December 10, 2007 I visited the Yreka DMV office (130 mile round trip) and was waited upon by Jan, (DMV Clerk # 09, last name unknown). I explained my complaint, and showed her the proper documentation including my FCC license. Jan was very willing to correct the error and resolve the problem. When she tried to find my vehicle’s records in the DMV data base, she could not find my vehicle “in the system.” She consulted with her supervisor, who was also unable to find my vehicle’s record in the data base.

Jan then tried calling Sacramento, but was unable to get through. Jan told me that she would try again in the morning and call me. I turned in the incorrect plates and also provided a photocopy of my (correct) rear license plate.

On December 7, Jan called and left a voice mail message that she had checked with Sacramento and the person that she spoke with (I believe she said the person’s name was Tony, last name unknown) told her that the FCC (Federal Communications Commission) determines the license plate format for amateur radio operators, and that they mandate that a space be placed between the K6 and the SOJ in my case. She then instructed me to pick up my (incorrect) plates the next time I am in Yreka.

I do not believe that this is correct. I called the FCC in Gettysburg, PA (1-888-225-5322) and spoke with Mary Riddick, a customer service representative, and explained what had happened. Her first words were: “That’s not true.” She then went on to say that the FCC has no such ruling or requirement, and has nothing to do with what the DMV in any state does when it comes to license plate configuration(s).

I am asking you to look into, and resolve, this matter. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me.

Sincerely,

David W. Thorne
xxx xxxxx xxx
xxx CA XXXXX

Newstory, 12-21-07: ARES Newsletter

N e w s t o r y

ARES Newsletter

Dec. 21, 2007

ARES Newsletter is a nationally circulated weekly newsletter for amateur radio emergency communications operators.

The California DMV has a new policy of putting spaces in call signs on ham license plates. A space in a call sign undermines its integrity. When we have to cross a fire/police line, will the gatekeeper police officer or firefighter recognize our call sign with a space on our plates? The new policy is going to create confusion and may delay us in getting across police and fire lines to help our served agencies. I've heard that DMV will issue a response letter to an unnamed> > ham that will seek to justify adding the space. ARRL inquiries> > resulted in DMV saying that federal law requires the space. ARRL General Counsel Chris Imlay, W3KD, has responded that there is no such law. No other state puts in spaces.

Wrong Callsign, "DMV Computer Requires Space": David Towle, W6VNQ

Hi Cliff,

I too received a replacement plate with a space (W6 VNQ) and right justified when I turned in my old call sign plates (KD6VNQ). I submitted the request to my local DMV office and in about 3 weeks the new plates arrived. However, the plates call was N6VNQ, with no spaces. I took the plates back to the same DMV office and they reordered the correct plates. Another 3+ months and the new plates arrived, W6 VNQ. Back to the DMV office. I was told that a new computer system had been installed a while back (no time period given) that required the space. The person also showed me the section on amateur radio plates in their field manual. It called for a space after the number on 1 x 3 calls. I called the main DMV registration office in Sacramento and was told that it was not a new computer issue, but it had always been required that amateur radio license plates had a space in them.

My registration has a space. I checked with numerous hams, 1 x 3 and 1 x 2 calls that did not have spaces. However, their registration had a space.

I then took my "spaced" plates to another DMV office in another county and after some discussion the office manager explained to the person helping be how to write up the request so that new plates would be issued with no space and centered on the plate.

I have a draft letter to send to ARRL as well as my state representative. Based on what I understand is taking place I will hold off. If I need to do something different in regards to signing a petition please let me know. I will also forward the EMCOMM newsletter on to others.

David, W6VNQ

Opposition Letter - ARRL Southwest Director Dick Norton, N6AA, to DMV Director

(ARRL Letterhead)




Richard J. Norton
21290 West Hillside Drive
Topanga, CA 90290
(310) 455-1138
19 December, 2007

Mr. George Valverde
Director, California Department of Motor Vehicles
2415 1st Avenue
Mail Station F101
Sacramento, CA 95818

Dear Sir:

I am the Southwestern Division Director of the ARRL, the National Organization for Amateur Radio. The Southwestern Division, with over 12,000 members, encompasses Southern California and Arizona.

This is to confirm a situation recently brought to your attention by the office of Assemblyman Mike Feuer concerning a completely unexpected change in the California Motor Vehicle Department’s production of license plates with Amateur Radio callsigns. The license plates are now apparently produced with a space between parts of the callsign. I request your support toward restoring the long-standing production of license plates with the callsigns presented in unaltered form.

All 50 states and the District of Columbia issue vehicle license plates with Amateur Radio callsigns on them. At times these permit easy identification of participants in emergency communications.

The Federal Communications Commission issues callsigns with between four and six characters to holders of Amateur Radio licenses. The callsigns begin with the letter A, K, N, or W. There is a number in the callsign. The number 6 was issued to stations in California, and lately the FCC has permitted people who move from California to retain their 6th district callsigns. In fact, the FCC now allows selection of callsigns with any number from 0 to 9 by license holders anywhere in the USA.

The Callsigns have one or two characters, followed by a number, followed by one to three characters. Typical of callsigns are AA6VV, AD6D, K6ABC, KD6XYZ, N6ZZ, N8QXQ, W6AAA, WB6ZYX, WW6CC, and WX6X.

In all my 52 plus years as a licensed amateur, I have never heard of a state issuing license plates with a space between parts of the callsign.

It would feel no more appropriate than someone sending you correspondence with a space between parts of your name, such as George Val verde or George Val ver de..

On behalf of the licensed Radio Amateurs in California, I request that you take steps to restore the full callsigns, without introduced spaces on the California Amateur Radio license plates.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Yours truly,




Richard J. Norton
Amateur Radio Callsign – N6AA
Southwestern Division Director

Opposition Letter - ARRL, Southwest Director Dick Norton, N6AA to Assemblyman Feuer

(ARRL Letterhead)




Richard J. Norton
21290 West Hillside Drive
Topanga, CA 90290
(310) 455-1138
19 December, 2007

Assemblyman Mike Feuer
Calif. State Assembly, 42nd District
Attn: Joshua Englander
9200 Sunset Boulevard, PH 15
West Hollywood, CA 90069

Dear Sirs:

I am the Southwestern Division Director of the ARRL, the National Organization for Amateur Radio. The Southwestern Division, with over 12,000 members, encompasses Southern California and Arizona.

This is to confirm a situation recently brought to your attention by Dr. Clifford Cheng concerning a completely unexpected change in the California Motor Vehicle Department’s production of license plates with Amateur Radio callsigns. The license plates are now apparently produced with a space between parts of the callsign. I request your support toward restoring the long-standing production of license plates with the callsigns presented in unaltered form.

All 50 states and the District of Columbia issue vehicle license plates with Amateur Radio callsigns on them. At times these permit easy identification of participants in emergency communications.

The Federal Communications Commission issues callsigns with between four and six characters to holders of Amateur Radio licenses. The callsigns begin with the letter A, K, N, or W. There is a number in the callsign. The number 6 was issued to stations in California, and lately the FCC has permitted people who move from California to retain their 6th district callsigns. In fact, the FCC now allows selection of callsigns with any number from 0 to 9 by license holders anywhere in the USA.

The Callsigns have one or two characters, followed by a number, followed by one to three characters. Typical of callsigns are AA6VV, AD6D, K6ABC, KD6XYZ, N6ZZ, N8QXQ, W6AAA, WB6ZYX, WW6CC, and WX6X.

In all my 52 plus years as a licensed amateur, I have never heard of a state issuing license plates with a space between parts of the callsign.

It would feel no more appropriate than someone sending you correspondence with a space between parts of your name, such as Assemblyman Feu er, or Deputy Eng lander.

On behalf of the licensed Radio Amateurs in California, I request that you take steps to restore the full callsigns, without introduced spaces on the California Amateur Radio license plates.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Yours truly,




Richard J. Norton
Amateur Radio Callsign – N6AA
Southwestern Division Director

Assm. Feuer's Response to ARRL Director Dick Norton

Here is Assemblyperson Mike Feuer's Response to Dick Norton, N6AA, American Radio Relay League (ARRL) Director, Southwest Division (Southern Calif. & Arizona). (We apologize. Blogspot will not let us upload a larger image). This is basically a form letter. Josh Englander, who is a staff member of Assm. Feuer's had told us he would serve as a cotnat person for hams. This letter apparently did not come from him. The letter says it can not discuss this issue with Dick Norton due to privacy concerns - of their constituents. The letter does not recognize ARRL's standing in representing as the national organization of amatuer radio.

ARRL Volunteer Counsel Phil Kane, Esq., K2ASP's Legal Arguements

Mr. Kane wrote me an email which he cc'd ARRL Directors Bob Vallio and Dick Norton and ARRL General Counsel Chris Imlay. I made two requests to him for permission to post the email. There was no response. Rick Palm, K1CE, Editor of the ARES Newsletter made a similar request.

Mr. Kane basically stated the DMV legally must follow own regulations and not put a space in its ham callsign plates. Pamela Royce's legal opinion on this website is similar to Mr. Kane's. Of course, the issue its the interpretation of the regulation. DMV's position, see DMV's response to Marvin Munster, on this website, is that the regulations do no prohibit them from adding a space, so they can and did.

Update - Awaiting DMV Written Response, Mid-Dec. 2007

Dec. 12, 2007. Assemblyman Mike Feuer's Office, Josh Englander, says DMV will write a response letter which will justify its policy of placing a space in FCC issued callsigns.

-------

Dec. 18, 2007. Assemblyman Feuer's District Director Alex Ponder called Dr. Cliff Cheng, WW6CC, to tell him that their office has asked the Director of the DMV to respond with a written policy statement on ham license plate spacing.

Cliff sees the next few weeks as a chance to influence the DMV Director:
George Valverde, Director
Department of Motor Vehicles
2415 1st Avenue, Mail Station F101
Sacramento, CA 95818
(916) 657-7393 (fax)
If Mr. Valverde is thinking ahead, he will not want to take on a fight with ham radio. This is not a wsie fight for him as a political appointtee. It is not in his best interest to have State Assemblypersons, State Senators and the Governor, who appointed him, getting letters of complaint over what the lawmakers would see as a trival issue - when DMV has more serious issues, such as driver's licenses for undocumented individuals (illegal aleins). We must convince Mr. Valverde to reserve the policy and dismiss it as an error his low level employees made without his knowledge.

Complaint to DMV: Howard Levine, Esq., W6CGA

Howard S. Levine
xxx xxxxxx xxx
xxx CA xxxxx


December 14, 2007


Office of the Director
Department of Motor Vehicles
2415 1st Avenue Mail Station F101
Sacramento, CA 95818


Gentlemen:

I am an Amateur Radio Operator licensed by the Federal Communications Commission and assigned call sign W6CGA.

In August I purchased a new vehicle and immediately went to the DMV office in Arleta to order personalized Amateur plates for my vehicle. When I received the Registration in the mail, it showed the plates as W6 CGA, with a space between 6 and the C. I then went to the Van Nuys office of DMV and spoke to a supervisor about it. She made a telephone call and I was told that was how the plates look on the registration paperwork, but the physical plates would be W6CGA with no space. Several weeks later I received the plates and they had the space.

I went back to the DMV in Van Nuys to complain and was told that the plates would be re-done without the space. I then received a telephone call saying that your office now mandates that there must be a space. WHY? Our Federal licenses do not have a space and neither should our personalized plates.

Please revoke your ruling that there must be a space and have my plates issued as the FCC issued my license.

Very truly yours,


HOWARD S. LEVINE

HSL:ms

Newstory: Amateur Radio Newsline, Dec. 14 2007

N e w s t o r y

Amateur Radio Newsline

Dec. 14, 2007

MP3 Audio Story
ftp://ftp.arnewsline.org/quincy/News/news.mp3

VANITY PLATES: CALIFORNIA GOES STRANGE

If you live in California, have a four or five character callsign and apply for call letter license plates, you will be in for a surprise when they arrive. That’s because the manufacturing process is designed for six digit plates and you will likely find that the state has inserted a blank space after the third character. According to Cliff Cheng, WW6CC, he found out the hard way when he got his new call and applied for new plates. When he got them they read WW6 space CC. In the past when applying for California ham plates you could request that the Department of Motor Vehicles run the suffix together without the space. Now that alternative has gone away.Curious as to when the option disappeared, Cliff contacted State Assemblyman Mike Feur's aide Josh Englander. He told WW6CC that this is a new policy as of a month ago. (WW6CC)

Complaint - Marvin Munster, W6MJM

Hello Cliff,

I have been sparing with the CA DMV for a little while now. I
changed my call from WB6PKK to W6MJM and the plates came back
W6 MJM. Anyway, here is the letter and if it didn't get put in the
blog, maybe you can post it.

Marvin - W6MJM